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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 705 for the 10th of april

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2022

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richard saunders coming to you from a

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sunny for a change a sunny sydney

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australia

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we've had so much rain recently that

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when it does rain

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just a moderate shower there's a

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flooding straight away because the

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ground is saturated

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but you don't want to hear about

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saturated ground you want to hear about

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what's coming up on this week's episode

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of the skeptic zone we're going to kick

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off we're going to start with an

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interview

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i conducted in the last week with a a

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very interesting fellow indeed bob

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swanson now bob is from the

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department of physics and astronomy at

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mississippi state university

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now why am i talking to bob well he has

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done a series of videos about critical

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thinking

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and one of them

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revolves around the claims of power

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balance the old wristbands

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increase your balance your strength and

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your flexibility and he looks at this

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claim from a critical point of view and

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a physics point of view and sort of

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deconstructs what's happening in those

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classic famous

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uh sham as we know now sham tests

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it's great to know that after all these

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years that i was investigating the power

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balance over 10 years now

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10 years ago that

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the lessons are still being

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learned and used or used and learned

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anyway coming up at the top of the show

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interview with bob swanson and i will

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link

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to his series of critical thinking

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videos

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following that it's the australian

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skeptics newsletter read once again with

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elegance and poise by adrian hill in

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canada of course it all makes sense of

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course the australian skeptics

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newsletter should be read from canada

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i think

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then it's tim menden back with a book of

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tim

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and an item

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about the history of astrology and

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astronomy and this is called an eye to

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the sky written by tim harding so tim

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mendom bringing you that report a bit

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later on in the book of tim

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and to round off the show it's a dive

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into the trove archives once again and

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staying with our astrology theme from uh

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tim mendem we're going to

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wander through the digital archives and

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look at references here in australia to

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that oldie that goldy the oldie the

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goldy but oldie the older goldie the

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evergreen

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the thing that won't go away

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astrology

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i noticed that uh in this state in new

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south wales and victoria too and i think

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other states i'm not sure it's holiday

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time for school students

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which is lots of fun for my nieces and

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nephews

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and it's also holiday time well as much

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as they can have a holiday for the

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teachers out there the teachers who have

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just started their little break

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good luck to you i'm thinking about you

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because i know what a

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what a difficult job teaching really is

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i think you deserve all the breaks you

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can get so to all my teacher friends out

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there

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hopefully hopefully putting their feet

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up

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with a cat on the lap

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i'm thinking about you

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have a nice break

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stay tuned at the end of the episode for

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another announcement from me

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs

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and without a question

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it's a poached egg on toast sort of day

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why i go and enjoy that i hope you enjoy

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the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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and joining me now all the way from the

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department of physics and astronomy at

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mississippi state university oh i'd like

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to visit that campus i really would it's

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bob swanson hello bob hello richard nice

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to see you yes nice to see you too of

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course these days it's great to video

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video people you were just talking to me

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before we went on air about

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you asking me what it's like to live in

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the future and sometimes when i think of

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how easy it is to video people from

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around the world that you and i are both

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now living in the future right exactly

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yeah i've always valued living

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i've lived a university life yeah

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working at universities and i've always

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valued the fact that you get a chance to

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especially in the science department

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meet people from all around the world

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you know all you know many times the

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faculty or the tas are you know it's an

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international

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you know kind of thing and uh you know

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now that we're

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zooming

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it's so nice to be able to touch base

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with folks you know halfway around the

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world you know so easily it it it's

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fantastic

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now why am i talking to you well you

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heard me

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uh having a chat on another podcast was

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that the

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the atheist experience i think that was

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correct yes i was on there with my

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friend rob palmer to talk about the

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great australian psychic prediction

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project you heard that and your interest

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was picked because and it's it's a bit

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of a story here folks it's a bit of a

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tangled web

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but you

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have done a series of videos i'd like to

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chat to you about about critical

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thinking and why this all ties in

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is i think

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one of the first ones if not the first

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one was

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concentrating on the good old power

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balance wristband from

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2009-2010

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uh era

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exactly

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and i was delighted when you contacted

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me and i had a look at your videos i

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thought wow look at that because you

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brought up some interesting insights

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that i'd never thought about but what's

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let's get back to basics

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why did you start doing this and why did

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you concentrate on the power balance and

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the claims of the power balance

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wristband

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right yeah i i'll give you kind of a

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brief biography in the sense that i've

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been a teacher twice i started out in

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the mid 90s out of college as a high

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school science teacher did that for a

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couple of years left it went back to

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graduate school got a degree in

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meteorology i spent a decade as a

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meteorologist then around 2010 i came

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back to teaching moved mississippi and

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got into teaching and i was teaching at

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a community college

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and the very first semester i was

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teaching was when power balance bands

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were all the rage

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and i was teaching a physical science

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class this is a a conceptual physics

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class it's kind of

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physics for non-science majors so a lot

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of the math is stripped away you know

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it's really just students are there to

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get a science credit quite often these

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are students who have not been turned on

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there's a reason why they're not science

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majors in college because they weren't

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inspired in high school and so they've

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gone you know or maybe they've got a

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passion for history or whatever but

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they're taking my class and i had a

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couple of students who were wearing

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these power balance bands yeah and they

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wanted to know do they really work and i

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i first of all had to i was kind of

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caught flat-footed because i'd never

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seen them before so they did the

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demonstrations for me and

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i thought that was interesting and then

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pretty soon i started to notice that

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there were flyers up on campus and

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people were selling these things and i

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thought nice i started to notice them on

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people's wrists more i'm sure as well i

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thought

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i need to address this and so i actually

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started to investigate them and that's

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actually when i stumbled across

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the uh there's a tv report

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that you were part of yes that's where

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you first hit my radar screen because

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you were part of

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my research in trying to figure these

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things out that's why i was so delighted

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when when you are recently appeared on

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the atheist experience uh with seth

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andrews and uh

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you know heard you heard your voice and

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i thought wow ten years on you

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[Laughter]

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i haven't i haven't quit yet

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you saw these things on campus

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you decided um

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at some stage or other to do a critical

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thinking course which you've put on

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youtube

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now what was your approach how did you

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manage to

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um

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weave in the power balance into your

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critical thinking videos yeah the the

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original version of it i i just thought

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the the students there they came to me

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asking for my explanation they looked at

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me as the physicist to explain this

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phenomenon and you know they seemed

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sincere and

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i thought it was interesting the more i

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looked into it i thought you know wow

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this is really interesting

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and i never really you know

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probed the psychology of it you know for

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me was just trying to answer a physics

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question right and teach a little bit

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about torque and that sort of thing yes

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but i think the original version of the

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video was much more straight you know

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kind of physics and and but that then

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when i found your

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your report where was the double blind

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experiment i thought this is really a

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good way of you know talking about

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what's the difference between a

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demonstration versus an experiment yes

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and

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my students doing it

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you know and doing these tests on each

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other these demonstrations on each other

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you know of course they weren't in it

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for the money they were you know they

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weren't they weren't themselves

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profiting from these you know it really

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was a good

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example of the psychology of it you know

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when when you are expecting a result you

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will

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subconsciously affect the way you do the

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test yeah so that's what double blind is

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so so really uh so important and

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really a good example way of

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really bringing this home to my students

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that's great because

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it's a classic it's set itself itself up

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so well for a double-blind test because

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it's a it's a straightforward claim

284
00:10:08,870 --> 00:10:07,519
where this device and this will happen

285
00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:08,880
this will happen and this will happen

286
00:10:12,790 --> 00:10:10,320
your balance and your strength and your

287
00:10:14,870 --> 00:10:12,800
flexibility will increase

288
00:10:17,110 --> 00:10:14,880
don't wear it and you'll have less

289
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:17,120
balance less strength less flexibility

290
00:10:21,269 --> 00:10:18,880
and i like you i noticed that on the

291
00:10:22,550 --> 00:10:21,279
promotional videos and in your video you

292
00:10:24,069 --> 00:10:22,560
referenced one of these promotional

293
00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:24,079
videos

294
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:25,200
it's

295
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:29,360
course both the

296
00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,399
person doing the test and the person

297
00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:34,800
undergoing the test both know when

298
00:10:41,350 --> 00:10:36,079
or

299
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:41,360
so my approach was well simple let's

300
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:43,120
just take that out of the equation if it

301
00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:45,040
works it would work regardless of

302
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:47,360
whether the people knew

303
00:10:50,949 --> 00:10:49,680
this device was around

304
00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:50,959
and

305
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,200
well the results were

306
00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:57,360
quite obvious but i really enjoyed

307
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:59,519
watching your video about this because i

308
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:00,399
learned

309
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:04,560
you talk briefly about a couple of

310
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:06,399
things the center of gravity the

311
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:09,519
direction of force and torque and

312
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:11,279
moment arm which i found were

313
00:11:14,949 --> 00:11:12,880
fascinating

314
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:14,959
right i usually explain

315
00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:17,440
moment arm and torque to my students by

316
00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:19,120
just opening a door

317
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:20,720
you know when you grab the door handle

318
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:23,120
yeah and i talk about you how easy is it

319
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:26,160
to open a door pretty easy um

320
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:27,519
and which direction are you applying

321
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:29,920
your force so you're applying your force

322
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:32,480
perpendicular to the actual door itself

323
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:34,720
because you and you're you're producing

324
00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:36,320
rotation

325
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:38,560
of the door around the hinges yeah but

326
00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:40,720
it's a whole lot easier when you do it

327
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:41,920
far out on the door as opposed to if

328
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:43,279
you're trying to push right next to the

329
00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:44,560
hinges yes

330
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:46,240
you know you don't get nearly the

331
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:47,760
leverage and of course a lot of students

332
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:49,760
are even at that point pretty familiar

333
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:51,120
with leverage you know but this is a

334
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:52,800
good way of into introducing torque and

335
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:55,279
rotational motion and that sort of thing

336
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:58,560
and that really is you know folks can

337
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:00,480
you watch the video in its entirety but

338
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:03,279
that's really the key is that um

339
00:12:08,069 --> 00:12:05,600
depending on how you apply your force on

340
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:08,079
the on a test subject in doing the power

341
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,440
balance bands you know just a a small

342
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,519
force that's perpendicular to their

343
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:15,600
moment arm will cause them to rotate

344
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:18,240
yeah if you're pushing perpendicular i'm

345
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:20,240
sorry parallel to their moment arm you

346
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:21,839
cause no rotation just like if you were

347
00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:24,720
to pull on a door yeah or push on a door

348
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,839
toward the hinges or away from the

349
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:27,040
hinges

350
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,720
the door doesn't move it doesn't rotate

351
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:30,720
either but when you you know just push

352
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:32,959
perpendicular you cause rotation that's

353
00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:33,760
really

354
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:35,519
i think the physics at the heart of the

355
00:12:39,829 --> 00:12:38,240
power balance demonstrations absolutely

356
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:39,839
and in your video which i'll reference

357
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:41,760
to folks if you want to check out uh

358
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,839
bob's video i'll be adding a link in

359
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:45,360
this week's show notes

360
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:48,160
so it's fantastic for me because you

361
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,160
know all these years i i knew what was

362
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:52,000
going on i knew it was the direction of

363
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,720
the force applied to the arm

364
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,560
towards or away from the center of

365
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:58,639
gravity was really where it's the heart

366
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:01,200
of the trick but i was really grateful

367
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,560
to have it explained to me with all

368
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:04,000
these extra things like the talk and the

369
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:06,560
moment arm which i i certainly learned a

370
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:09,040
lot by by looking at that now you

371
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:10,240
noticed

372
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:11,519
in in your

373
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,279
part of the world as i noticed here that

374
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:15,200
this band was popular with football

375
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:17,200
players your american football players

376
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:19,360
and our australian football players it

377
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:22,240
was really marketed towards um you know

378
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:25,200
increase your sporting prowess wasn't it

379
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:28,720
right and what was funny was

380
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:29,680
you

381
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,760
no sooner had i gotten the video and the

382
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:33,120
lecture together

383
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:34,959
and you know by the spring semester or

384
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:36,880
maybe a year on i wasn't seeing these

385
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,800
things around as much

386
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:40,399
and i would kid my students i would say

387
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:42,639
oh it's because i gave such a convincing

388
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,440
lecture that everyone told their friends

389
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,519
and neighbors you know oh it's all

390
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:49,360
physics

391
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:51,040
you know of course i say this

392
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,639
uh facetiously um the reason why they

393
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,480
become why they i didn't weren't i

394
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:58,800
wasn't seeing them anymore was because

395
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,839
when i first was introduced to them it

396
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:03,360
was the kids that could spend thirty

397
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,440
dollars on a plastic band you know so

398
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,959
it's the rich kids and it was the

399
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:08,639
athletes they were you know there was an

400
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:10,560
exclusive group there was an exclusivity

401
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:12,720
to these things and then six months

402
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,720
later they were showing up

403
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:16,800
at i was living in tupelo mississippi at

404
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:18,160
the time they were at the tupelo flea

405
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,240
market three for five dollars and

406
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:22,079
everyone was wearing them you know and

407
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,600
and that was you know that was the end

408
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,440
of the fad yeah once they become

409
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:27,360
ubiquitous then you know there's nothing

410
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,880
special about them

411
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:31,279
that mirrors what happened here i found

412
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:32,880
a whole barrel full full of them in the

413
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:35,120
flea market myself one day

414
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:36,959
and i missed out on what as i was

415
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:38,720
researching these when i was originally

416
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,320
coming up with the lecture i did find a

417
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:43,199
few folks on like health and fitness

418
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,519
blogs and such who were

419
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:47,760
complaining you know oh you know my band

420
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:49,360
doesn't seem to be working anymore so

421
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:50,720
i'm not you know

422
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,480
and i missed out on the opportunity to

423
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:54,880
invent the power balance band recharging

424
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,150
you could have done it it might

425
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,160
it might interest you to know

426
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:04,959
that uh around the two

427
00:15:10,829 --> 00:15:08,320
2009 2010 uh those bands were selling

428
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:10,839
here in australia for 60

429
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:15,120
each and they sold they sold quite a lot

430
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:16,399
of them

431
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:19,680
and so in my i think i'm not sure if in

432
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,120
the web video i think maybe the web

433
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:23,040
version of my video i don't include i it

434
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,560
gives me a chance to talk about pyramid

435
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:26,480
schemes as well all right because there

436
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:28,079
were some that were sold kind of in a

437
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,360
pyramid you know

438
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:31,040
it's really tough to talk somebody out

439
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:32,079
of 60

440
00:15:35,189 --> 00:15:33,440
for a piece of plastic around their

441
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:35,199
wrist yeah it's a lot easier to find

442
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:37,199
your friends and family and convince

443
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,959
them that this is a worthwhile product

444
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:41,040
and get and get them to buy their stash

445
00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:42,959
of inventory and then of course that

446
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:45,680
percolates up to you um you know so it's

447
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,279
a good way of introducing you know

448
00:15:51,509 --> 00:15:49,600
multi-level marketing schemes as well uh

449
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,519
to have my students you know college-age

450
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:53,920
students are all too often roped into

451
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:56,480
mlms of any number of varieties so it's

452
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,399
a good introduction to it yeah it's it's

453
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:00,880
a classic of skepticism too is is our

454
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,120
examination of all these multi-level

455
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:05,279
marketing um

456
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:06,399
schemes

457
00:16:11,749 --> 00:16:09,600
over the years now i noticed too that

458
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,759
you know this is this is ancient history

459
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:13,600
in a way i mean this is all a decade ago

460
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:15,199
that i did these tests and the power

461
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:17,680
balance was was very popular

462
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,040
but uh

463
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:21,120
perusing tick tock not so long ago i

464
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:22,720
came across a woman

465
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:25,120
selling a product which was um

466
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:27,519
insoles for your shoes and the way she

467
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:30,160
demonstrated it on her tik tok was the

468
00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:31,279
same

469
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:33,040
sort of uh

470
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:35,440
idea of these power balance in other

471
00:16:39,629 --> 00:16:37,360
words she had her

472
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:39,639
her subject stand there and

473
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:41,440
interestingly enough she did it

474
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,360
backwards in other words she had the

475
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:45,600
product first and she said

476
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:47,680
stand on the product and look how strong

477
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,759
you are now step off the product oh off

478
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:51,360
the balance you go and i sent it to you

479
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,880
and you could see as i could see that

480
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:54,240
she's just applying her force

481
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,360
differently

482
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:57,040
exactly right yeah once once you know

483
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:58,959
what to look for you know and that but

484
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:01,120
it's it's so it's so subtle because even

485
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:01,920
you know

486
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,240
the guys that i videoed they would have

487
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,480
sworn to sworn to me you know that they

488
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:08,079
were doing it exactly the same way every

489
00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:09,600
time yeah it wasn't until they saw the

490
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:13,039
video that they're like oh yeah

491
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:13,919
it's it's

492
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:16,000
actually i i would love to track those

493
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:17,360
guys down

494
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,919
and and find out you know a decade on

495
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:21,760
you know whether whether this was an

496
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,280
impressive you know whether this left

497
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,959
any memory in their minds you know as

498
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,640
you know they were 18 year old 19 year

499
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:28,559
old but whether or not

500
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:30,720
such an exploration had any impact in

501
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,320
their critical thinking skills i've

502
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:34,799
become much more explicit in the in the

503
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,039
in the subsequent decade you know this

504
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:39,200
this was kind of the start it was indeed

505
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,520
the first of my series but you know just

506
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:43,360
when things have kind of struck me that

507
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:44,720
i think this would be an interesting

508
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:47,120
exploration and i would like to to talk

509
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:48,960
about confirmation bias with my students

510
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:50,559
or something of the sort i've created

511
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,640
these little videos uh you know which i

512
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,559
deploy in class it's not it's not a

513
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,160
critical thinking class it's either a

514
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,400
descriptive astronomy class or it's a

515
00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:00,480
physical science class but

516
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:01,840
it's a way of

517
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:03,280
bringing

518
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:04,640
skepticism

519
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:07,760
to my non-science majors and essentially

520
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:08,720
you know teaching them about the

521
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:12,000
scientific method but without using that

522
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:13,600
those words because

523
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:14,960
i think that especially these

524
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:17,600
non-science majors they think that oh if

525
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:18,880
it's a scientific they've heard the

526
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:21,280
scientific method before somewhere in

527
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:22,720
their educational background but they

528
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,880
think oh you need to be wearing goggles

529
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:26,640
and a white lab

530
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:28,080
for this to be important you know i

531
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:30,080
don't need to know this but i'm trying

532
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:30,799
to

533
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,080
really

534
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:34,240
impress upon them that

535
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,360
skepticism you know everyone should be

536
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:39,360
applying skepticism in there we all do

537
00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:42,559
in our daily lives um and

538
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,799
i i've become increasingly concerned as

539
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:46,640
you probably have as well

540
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:47,919
about

541
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:50,880
this almost epidemic of certainty that

542
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:52,720
we find in our world you know all too

543
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:55,200
often people are way out over their skis

544
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,720
do you have that expression no i don't

545
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,320
know that one that's an interesting one

546
00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:00,000
way out actually it's a good center of

547
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:01,120
gravity or

548
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:02,480
when you're way out over your ski when

549
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,600
you're when you've got your weight way

550
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:05,440
over your ski tips right you're going to

551
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,880
fall over

552
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:08,320
and that's

553
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:10,240
all too often i think a lot of folks are

554
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:12,400
wet overly

555
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:16,960
confident yes in ideas yes um and and

556
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:19,840
don't have the skills to examine

557
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:22,799
how those are founded um and so i it's

558
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:24,799
become part of my my teaching mission i

559
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:27,440
suppose it sounds like a very um a very

560
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:28,799
human thing

561
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:30,480
it does it sounds like a very human

562
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:32,960
thing we all get like that i'm sure

563
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:36,000
i'm i'm sure we do and um

564
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:38,000
and that's several of my videos are

565
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:40,640
actually and i actually i've

566
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:41,840
because i don't want to brow beat

567
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:43,840
students and i don't want to

568
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:46,240
appear to be picking on students so in

569
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:48,559
many cases you know i'm the patsy you

570
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:50,400
know i find things that i have taught

571
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:51,200
wrong

572
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:53,200
last week i found something i found a

573
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,080
video

574
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:56,480
veritasium is the is the

575
00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:58,000
channel yeah it's a great great series

576
00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:59,919
very very attaching enjoy it very much

577
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:02,000
he's got it he's got a video about it's

578
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:04,159
energy does not

579
00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:05,280
travel in

580
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,120
something like that fascinating yeah

581
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,840
it's exactly and and

582
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:11,280
i watched that last week i've never seen

583
00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:12,559
it before so that last week and i've

584
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:14,159
just been finished i was just finishing

585
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:15,919
up teaching about electricity i realized

586
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:17,760
ooh

587
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,039
there's some sketchy things that i'm

588
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,360
teaching you know i i need to re-examine

589
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:23,760
and that's great and i i came into class

590
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,200
on friday and i told my story i showed

591
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:27,200
him the video yeah i said i'm so excited

592
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,200
because

593
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:30,559
once you discover that you're wrong

594
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,480
you're not wrong anymore and that's

595
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:34,240
that's a very empowering kind of a

596
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,480
feeling um and i won't teach it the same

597
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:38,400
way next semester

598
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:39,360
those students will get a different

599
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:40,720
product than what i what i put out this

600
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:41,760
semester

601
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:43,280
um and what i most love about the

602
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,400
veritasium video is and near the end

603
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:48,720
he's talking with some other experts and

604
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,679
he says

605
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:51,360
how soon will it be until i get called

606
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:53,520
out on this yes and they're like oh

607
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,120
you're going to get called out

608
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,600
and that's science that's science that's

609
00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:59,200
right that is

610
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,039
the other video i liked

611
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:02,640
really enjoyed was the one where he

612
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:05,120
sails faster than the wind

613
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,320
have you seen that one he's on he's on

614
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,000
jibbing or whatever yeah yeah he's he's

615
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:12,720
on a land say a a land vehicle with

616
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:15,280
wheels and the vehicles is going faster

617
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:16,640
than the wind is pushing or something

618
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:19,360
it's just fascinating look folks i will

619
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:22,000
link not only to the the video about the

620
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:23,520
power balance which is very interesting

621
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,280
and as i said i learned a lot about

622
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:27,760
moment arm and talk and things like that

623
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,000
but a whole series that bob has done on

624
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:32,559
youtube and i would especially recommend

625
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,919
all the teachers out there science

626
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:35,840
teachers physics teachers have a look

627
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:38,480
have a look i think you'll get a lot out

628
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:40,080
of this well bob thank you very much for

629
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:41,520
sparing some time for the skeptic zone

630
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:43,120
and thank you for reaching out and

631
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:44,880
sending me a note

632
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:46,159
oh this has been this has been a dream

633
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:47,200
come true i've

634
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:48,480
i've wanted to get a chance to talk to

635
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:50,559
you for a decade now i finally have well

636
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:51,840
there you go

637
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:54,240
all right bob swanson from the

638
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:55,760
department of physics and astronomy

639
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:58,000
mississippi state university thank you

640
00:22:02,100 --> 00:21:59,120
very much

641
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:02,110
thank you richard

642
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,190
[Music]

643
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:17,280
hi i'm abhijeet from the rationable

644
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,480
podcast

645
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:21,039
we all have beliefs that we hold dear

646
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:21,840
like

647
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:23,600
evolution is true

648
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:26,480
alternative medicine is quackery and the

649
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:29,280
ketogenic diet is a fad and so on

650
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,559
but what if we were wrong

651
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:34,880
on the next skeptics in the pub i'll be

652
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:37,440
talking about five instances where i

653
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:39,600
tested my beliefs against the evidence

654
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:42,240
and discovered that proving myself wrong

655
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:44,320
was the right thing to do

656
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:46,960
and why as skeptics this is something we

657
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:49,360
all need to do more in our lives

658
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:50,880
see you at skeptics in the pub on the

659
00:23:00,940 --> 00:22:54,000
14th of april at 7 pm sydney time and 2

660
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:21,669
[Music]

661
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:23,840
hello everyone it's adrian hill from

662
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,320
canada here to read the highlights from

663
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:28,400
the australian skeptics newsletter

664
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:30,240
[Music]

665
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:33,520
this is newsletter number 145.

666
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:35,440
you can subscribe to this newsletter and

667
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,360
get it delivered to your inbox every

668
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:39,280
other week complete with links to all

669
00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:41,200
these stories just visit

670
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:48,149
but now let's get to the newsletter and

671
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:51,679
see what tim endum has lined up for us

672
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,159
hi all says tim

673
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,159
must have been a quieter fortnight as

674
00:24:02,470 --> 00:23:58,480
there are fewer items though covid

675
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:02,480
maintains its presence worst luck

676
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:04,960
on the plus side the anti-vaxx movement

677
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,679
is apparently having hard times

678
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:10,240
and there's always the hybrid of psychic

679
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:12,640
astrology and culinary arts to tickle

680
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:13,919
your taste buds

681
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:15,120
read on

682
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:21,269
australia's anti-vaccine movement is

683
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:22,720
collapsing

684
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:23,919
crikey

685
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:25,600
oh i'm so happy to get to say this

686
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:28,960
non-canadian word a crikey article looks

687
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:31,840
at australia's anti-vaccine activists

688
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:33,840
having seized on the covet outbreaks as

689
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,000
a rallying point quote the once

690
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,240
energetic and active movement is now in

691
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:40,320
trouble as their cause is falling apart

692
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,440
end quote

693
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,919
key organizations are short of funds and

694
00:24:47,470 --> 00:24:45,840
taking desperate actions to build

695
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:47,480
relevance

696
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:50,480
[Music]

697
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:53,760
man gets 87 covid jabs in anti-vaxx

698
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:55,520
fraud scheme

699
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,520
authorities in germany discovered a man

700
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,520
had been visiting vaccine facilities

701
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:02,159
three times a day as part of a suspected

702
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,360
scheme to resell proof of vaccination to

703
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:07,360
anti-vaxxers

704
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:10,559
another indication of the uh high

705
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:13,600
ethical standards and the low scientific

706
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:14,400
literacy

707
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:15,730
of that movement

708
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:19,279
[Music]

709
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:21,279
who is most likely to believe in the

710
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,279
paranormal

711
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:25,440
a long article from psychology today

712
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,360
tackles the question of why women are

713
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:29,039
more likely than men to believe in

714
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,279
supernatural phenomena

715
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,520
is it that women are more empathetic

716
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:35,919
than men a trait that lends itself to

717
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:38,240
belief or at least the acceptance of the

718
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,170
possibility of the paranormal

719
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,480
[Music]

720
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:44,400
how wellness influencers became

721
00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:47,440
cheerleaders for putin's war

722
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:49,520
another long article this one from

723
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:52,400
mother jones that pulls together online

724
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:55,520
influencers promoting political views q

725
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,640
anon supporters of putin quote he is

726
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:01,200
standing in the way of the global reset

727
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:04,480
end quote and how unvaccinated people

728
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:07,200
are far less likely to want to support

729
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:11,520
the ukraine in its battle with russia

730
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,159
pseudoscience of excited delirium

731
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:18,320
never heard of that before

732
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:21,279
a new york-based advocacy organization

733
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,640
position for human rights or phr has

734
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:26,559
released a report on the lack of

735
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:29,039
scientific grounding for excited

736
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:32,080
delirium which has been repeatedly cited

737
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:34,000
as a cause of death in fatal police

738
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:35,360
encounters

739
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:37,039
the very long report concludes that the

740
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,200
term cannot be disentangled from its

741
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:41,520
racist and unscientific origins

742
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:45,840
[Music]

743
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,159
gimbal ufo a new analysis

744
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:52,480
ufo researcher mick west has continued

745
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,720
his investigations into perhaps the most

746
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:56,960
popular and most cited video in support

747
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,320
of alien craft the gimbal ufo

748
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:02,080
while the exact aircraft in question

749
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,480
cannot be identified there's simply no

750
00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:06,799
good reason to suspect it is of alien

751
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,279
origin it then makes you wonder why tv

752
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:11,440
specials keep trotting it out as if it

753
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:13,520
were still somehow evidence for alien

754
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,830
the march 2022 issue of the skeptic is

755
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:26,159
out and it features a look at the ticks

756
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:28,480
and tactics of high-level athletes to

757
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,640
improve their performance a combination

758
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:32,559
of superstition and pseudoscience that

759
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:35,200
is nonetheless very influential on fans

760
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,029
the issue also features articles on what

761
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:43,919
exactly is agenda 21 what

762
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,559
do your own research entails how a

763
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:48,720
well-known critic of parapsychology had

764
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:50,720
a change of heart

765
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,240
sort of and much more

766
00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:56,240
you can read that ticks and tactics

767
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:58,399
piece as a sample article from the march

768
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:59,679
issue

769
00:28:03,470 --> 00:28:01,760
and if you haven't subscribed yet now is

770
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:03,480
the time to do so

771
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:07,039
[Music]

772
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:09,840
items of interest

773
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,840
psychics cooking by the stars

774
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:16,320
peter marks a quote world-renowned

775
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,640
psychic medium astrologer intuitive

776
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,559
medium personality and accomplished

777
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:22,799
author end quote whom we have never

778
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:25,600
heard of has released the gourmet

779
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,080
cookbook for astrology lovers

780
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:30,240
recipes are tailored for each of the 12

781
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:32,480
different astrological signs

782
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,760
poor old africans go hungry apparently

783
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,159
for example taureans are considered

784
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:40,000
gourmet eaters because they have

785
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:42,399
sensitive taste buds a libran loves

786
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,320
sweets because of their rich sugary

787
00:28:48,410 --> 00:28:45,840
texture

788
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:48,420
was that the food or the person

789
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:49,840
[Music]

790
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:52,559
a sagittarius will try exotic dishes

791
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:54,559
because of their daring and adventurous

792
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:57,120
nature and if you really want an amazing

793
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:58,399
indication of the

794
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:00,399
world renowned psychic mediums

795
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,760
intelligence and insight quote did you

796
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:05,760
know that some of the world's best known

797
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,000
chefs are born under the sign of cancer

798
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,320
end quote

799
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:12,640
and i'm betting that some of the worst

800
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:20,470
silliest story of the week

801
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:24,159
16th century conquistador encountered by

802
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:26,799
pennsylvania deer hunter

803
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,520
i think maybe someone got seriously lost

804
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,600
that's all for now until next time this

805
00:29:37,210 --> 00:29:36,000
is adrian hill from sunny canada signing

806
00:30:00,810 --> 00:29:37,220
off

807
00:30:00,820 --> 00:30:06,710
[Music]

808
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,940
in argentina

809
00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:31,350
[Music]

810
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,240
ciao

811
00:30:36,250 --> 00:30:46,950
[Music]

812
00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:48,230
and now

813
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:50,400
a reading from the book of tim

814
00:30:54,220 --> 00:30:53,120
[Music]

815
00:31:02,470 --> 00:30:54,230
with tim mendom

816
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,480
[Music]

817
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,480
hi my name is tim mendel i'm the editor

818
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:06,480
of australian skeptics magazine the

819
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:09,120
skeptic and executive officer

820
00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:10,640
and today i'll be reading an article

821
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:11,679
from the

822
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:13,279
skeptic magazine

823
00:31:18,789 --> 00:31:17,440
from december 2013 which is volume 33

824
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:18,799
number four

825
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:20,320
this is an article written by tim

826
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,919
harding who's a regular correspondent

827
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,840
with a magazine and he's looking between

828
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:25,360
the split between

829
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:28,000
ancient astronomy and astrology and

830
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:29,919
that's how our view of the universe

831
00:31:36,430 --> 00:31:32,640
evolved and he called this an eye to the

832
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:38,630
[Music]

833
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:40,159
today there are distinct boundaries

834
00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:42,080
between the modern science of astronomy

835
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:45,360
and the pseudoscience known as astrology

836
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,799
but in ancient times these boundaries

837
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:49,120
were not so clear both fields of study

838
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:50,799
used a common set of astronomical

839
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:53,200
observations but for different purposes

840
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:54,640
the practical purposes of ancient

841
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,039
astronomy were celestial navigation and

842
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:59,360
the development of calendars of seasonal

843
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:01,440
dates and events such as the flooding of

844
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:03,760
rivers for the planting of crops in

845
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:06,480
contrast the purpose of astrology was to

846
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:09,120
interpret celestial phenomena as signs

847
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:11,440
of divine communications

848
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,640
long before the invention of the

849
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:14,720
telescope ancient observations and

850
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,120
predictions could only be of celestial

851
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:19,360
objects visible to the naked eye

852
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,039
this restricted astronomical and

853
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:23,440
astrological studies to the stars the

854
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,159
sun the moon and five planets mercury

855
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:28,640
venus mars jupiter and saturn the earth

856
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:30,880
was not counted as a planet until much

857
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:32,720
later

858
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,399
in some locations early cultures

859
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,480
assemble some structures that are

860
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:37,919
thought to have astronomical

861
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:40,080
observations as one of their purposes

862
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,519
the best known of these structures is of

863
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:43,679
course stonehenge in wheelchair england

864
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:46,399
which commenced construction around 3100

865
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:47,519
bce

866
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,080
and went through several building phases

867
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,320
as there are no written records to go by

868
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:54,240
there are several theories as to various

869
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:56,320
religions mystical and other purposes of

870
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:57,840
stonehenge

871
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:00,000
one of these theories has been proposed

872
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:02,159
by well-known victorian skeptic dr lynn

873
00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:03,360
kelly

874
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:05,279
cambridge university press is publishing

875
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:08,080
an academic book based on her phd thesis

876
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:09,440
about the use of structures like

877
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:10,399
stonehenge

878
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:13,600
as mnemonic aids to ensure that the oral

879
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:16,799
knowledge of the culture is retained and

880
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,840
passed on to succeeding generations

881
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:21,440
kelly is now writing another book on the

882
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:23,039
topic for the general public and for

883
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,720
your information since this article was

884
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:26,240
published those books are out and very

885
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:28,399
worthwhile reading

886
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:30,640
the layout of stonehenge also includes a

887
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,640
celestial observatory function which

888
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:34,080
would have allowed the prediction of

889
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:37,120
eclipses solstice equinox and other

890
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:38,799
celestial events

891
00:33:43,470 --> 00:33:41,440
important to a contemporary religion

892
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:43,480
one of the world's earliest known

893
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:46,080
archaeo-astronomical devices is a stone

894
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,360
circle at nabta playa in southern egypt

895
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:51,360
on the tropic of capricorn

896
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,360
the site is between six thousand and

897
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,080
sixty five hundred years old or about a

898
00:34:00,630 --> 00:33:58,640
thousand years older than stonehenge

899
00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:00,640
two pairs of upright stones stand

900
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:02,240
directly across the circle from each

901
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,799
other defining a view that would have

902
00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:07,440
marked sunrise at the summer solstice

903
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:09,679
thus providing the beginnings of a

904
00:34:14,109 --> 00:34:12,240
prehistoric calendar

905
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:14,119
the ancient egyptian calendar year was

906
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:17,599
365 days long divided into 12 months of

907
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:20,560
30 days each plus five extra days at the

908
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:21,839
end of the year

909
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:23,599
this was one quarter of a day shorter

910
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:25,440
than the solar year

911
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:27,679
leading to the problems of a

912
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,480
wandering year as it's called requiring

913
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,280
frequent astronomical correction

914
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:35,440
observation of stars was important in

915
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:36,879
predicting the annual flooding of the

916
00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:39,359
nile for the allocation of resources to

917
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:42,159
the planting of irrigated crops

918
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:44,320
early egyptian astronomy was intertwined

919
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,480
with astrology the sun was believed to

920
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:48,879
be a major god named ra representing

921
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:51,040
light warmth and growth

922
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,040
ray was thought to travel on two solar

923
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:55,119
boats one on his journey through the sky

924
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,320
during the day

925
00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:58,000
and the other in a river flowing

926
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,560
underneath the flat earth from west to

927
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,960
east at night so he went around in the

928
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:04,160
circle

929
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:06,560
most egyptologists believe that the

930
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:08,640
great pyramid of giza was built as a

931
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:11,440
tomb for fourth dynasty egyptian pharaoh

932
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:12,560
khufu

933
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:15,680
also called chiops or keops in greek

934
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:18,000
over a thousand to twenty year period in

935
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:21,440
concluding around 2560 bce

936
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:23,520
although other dates have been suggested

937
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,119
one theory is that this pyramid was

938
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:27,280
carefully aligned towards the northern

939
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:30,640
pole star which at the time was thuben

940
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:32,880
but is now polaris due to the precession

941
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,240
of the earth's

942
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:36,720
rotational axis

943
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:39,280
the ancient region known as mesopotamia

944
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:40,960
comprised the plains of the tigris and

945
00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:43,839
euphrates river in what is now iraq plus

946
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:46,480
a bits of syria turkey and iran

947
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:48,160
the lower part between the rivers was

948
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,160
known as sumer with babylon uruk and ur

949
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:53,920
as its major cities

950
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,839
the significance of this region is that

951
00:36:01,510 --> 00:35:57,520
it was the cradle of astronomy and

952
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:01,520
astrology as organized fields of study

953
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:04,320
sumi was also the birthplace of writing

954
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:06,720
in the form of cuneiform clay tablets

955
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:10,160
dating from the mid 4th millennium bce

956
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:12,240
these tablets provide us with the first

957
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:13,839
written evidence of astronomy and

958
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:15,599
astrology in the west

959
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:18,400
albeit in a fairly fragmentary nature

960
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,760
they're clay tablets so they don't

961
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:21,520
always survive well

962
00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:22,880
from these tablets we know that the

963
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:26,000
babylonians developed with a sexagesimal

964
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:28,880
which is base 60 numerical system

965
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:31,440
resulting in a current 60 minute hour 24

966
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:34,400
hour day and 360 degree circle

967
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:35,920
the babylonians were the first to

968
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:38,160
recognize that astronomical phenomena

969
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:40,720
are periodic and to apply mathematics to

970
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:42,000
their predictions

971
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:43,760
they develop the idea of a seven-day

972
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:46,160
week in a 12-month calendar based on

973
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:48,160
cycles of the moon together with the

974
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,079
seasons of summer and winter

975
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:52,240
the babylonians also measured variations

976
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:55,119
in the length of the day every year

977
00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:57,599
at around 1800 bc the first

978
00:37:02,150 --> 00:37:00,160
star catalogues were compiled the

979
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:02,160
babylonian astronomers noticed that a

980
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,720
few stars later called planets

981
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,560
wandered in relation to other fixed

982
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:08,560
stars and even retrograded in their

983
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:09,839
motions

984
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:11,920
these movements were confined to a

985
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,480
narrow belt at an angle of about 23

986
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:16,240
degrees to the equator

987
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:18,960
this belt called the zodiac was divided

988
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:21,119
into 12 sections and each section was

989
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:23,200
named after a constellation of fixed

990
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,119
stars in the neighborhood

991
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:27,119
the zodiac has also become one of the

992
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:30,960
important features of western astrology

993
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:32,960
we won't mention here ophiuchus which is

994
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:34,800
actually the 13th sign in the zodiac

995
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:37,760
because that just stuffed everything up

996
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,520
in this early period astronomy consisted

997
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:41,119
of observations calculations and

998
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:43,520
predictions of events such as solstices

999
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:45,040
and eclipses

1000
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:46,960
as such astronomy at this stage was like

1001
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:49,599
a branch of applied mathematics plus a

1002
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,160
database of observations

1003
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,320
there were no cosmological theories to

1004
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:55,680
tie all the observations and

1005
00:37:59,589 --> 00:37:57,680
calculations together

1006
00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,599
and try to rationally explain them the

1007
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,400
explanation vacuum was instead filled by

1008
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:05,280
astrology which claimed to interpret

1009
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:07,520
celestial events as religious or

1010
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:09,599
mystical omens

1011
00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:12,320
the anuma anu enlil

1012
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:14,480
in the days of the gods anu and ill with

1013
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:18,240
1600 bce is a major series of 68 or 70

1014
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:19,680
tablets dealing with babylonian

1015
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:21,040
astrology

1016
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:22,640
the number of tablets varies according

1017
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:25,920
to textual interpretations it comprises

1018
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,400
a substantial collection of omens

1019
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,480
estimated to number between sixty five

1020
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:32,400
hundred and seven thousand which

1021
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,640
interpret a wide variety of celestial

1022
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:36,640
and atmospheric phenomena

1023
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:40,240
in terms relevant to the king and state

1024
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,280
known as mundane astrology meaning the

1025
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:44,720
day daily

1026
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:46,880
for example a typical astrological

1027
00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:49,040
report to the king reads if the moon

1028
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,119
becomes visible on the first day

1029
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:53,839
reliable speech the land will be happy

1030
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:55,839
if the day reaches its normal length a

1031
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:58,400
rain of long days if the moon as its

1032
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:00,560
appearance worth a crown the king will

1033
00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:02,560
reach the highest rank

1034
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:04,000
movements of the sun moon and five

1035
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:05,520
planets were regarded as representing

1036
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:07,839
the activity of the gods in question

1037
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:10,240
evil celestial omens attached to any

1038
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:12,720
particular planet were therefore seen as

1039
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:15,119
indications of dissatisfaction or

1040
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:17,200
disturbance of the god that planet

1041
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,720
represented

1042
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:20,320
during the eighth and seventh centuries

1043
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:22,960
bce babylonian astronomers developed a

1044
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:25,440
new theoretical approach to astronomy

1045
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:27,359
they began to develop an internal logic

1046
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:30,240
within their observational data systems

1047
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:32,960
to improve their predictive power

1048
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,720
this was an important contribution

1049
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:36,640
towards the development of astronomy

1050
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:39,599
from a database to a science

1051
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:41,359
some scholars have thus referred to this

1052
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:44,000
new approach as the first scientific

1053
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:46,000
revolution

1054
00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:47,680
the new scientific approach to astronomy

1055
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,599
was adopted and further developed in

1056
00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:51,119
greek astronomy

1057
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:53,200
this process was considerably helped by

1058
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:55,280
the conquest of babylon by alexander the

1059
00:39:59,910 --> 00:39:58,560
great in 331 bce

1060
00:40:03,190 --> 00:39:59,920
according to the late classical

1061
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,200
philosopher simplicius of cilicia

1062
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:05,520
492 560

1063
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:08,160
ce alexander ordered the translation of

1064
00:40:12,309 --> 00:40:10,160
the babylonian historical astronomical

1065
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:12,319
records under supervision of his

1066
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:15,839
chronicle calisthenics of olympus

1067
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:18,160
who sent them to his uncle aristotle in

1068
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:20,480
athens aristotle was also the teacher of

1069
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,880
alexander until the age of 16. it's a

1070
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:24,480
small world

1071
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:26,560
the name planet comes from the greek

1072
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,880
term asta planetes

1073
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:31,200
meaning wandering star

1074
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:32,960
the names of individual planets within

1075
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:34,720
our solar system were drawn from greek

1076
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:37,200
mythology but were later romanized

1077
00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:38,720
outside greece

1078
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:40,640
references to identifiable stars and

1079
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:42,640
constellations appear in the writings of

1080
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:45,040
homer and hessia in the 7th or 8th

1081
00:40:49,510 --> 00:40:47,920
centuries bce however the first greek

1082
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:49,520
attempts to rationally explain the

1083
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:52,160
structure and behaviour of the cosmos

1084
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,000
date from the period 600 to 450 bce

1085
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:58,480
the anomalies in the motions of the

1086
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:59,680
planets

1087
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,440
bothered the early greeks who were

1088
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:03,599
culturally inclined to try to find

1089
00:41:08,190 --> 00:41:06,319
rational physical explanations for them

1090
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:08,200
pythagoras of samos

1091
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,280
570-495 bce was an ionian greek

1092
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,440
philosopher and mathematician who

1093
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,359
founded a philosophical movement known

1094
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,440
as the pythagoreans

1095
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:20,160
astronomy was listed by the pythagoreans

1096
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:22,720
among the four mathematical arts

1097
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:26,400
along with arithmetic geometry and music

1098
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:29,520
hill diades of pontus was a pythagorean

1099
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:31,520
who lived in the 4th century bce and

1100
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:33,200
studied under plato

1101
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:35,920
heraclitus held that the earth rotated

1102
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,400
on its own axis which accounted for the

1103
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:40,560
apparent procession of the stars across

1104
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:42,160
the night sky

1105
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:43,760
but did not explain the retrograde

1106
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:46,480
motion of the planets

1107
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:49,280
by now these anomalous planetary motions

1108
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:50,960
had become the central problem of

1109
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:53,520
astronomy and cosmology

1110
00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:57,119
plato encouraged eudoxus of kenitis

1111
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:00,160
for tender 347 bce to develop a

1112
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:02,640
two-sphere model with the earth at the

1113
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:04,800
center and the planets occupying a

1114
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:07,680
separate sphere to the stars

1115
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:11,520
aristarchus of samos 310-230 bc has been

1116
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:13,760
called the greek copernicus

1117
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:16,480
because he proposed a heliocentric model

1118
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:17,920
of the cosmos

1119
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:20,160
with the sun as the center instead of

1120
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:21,119
the earth

1121
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:25,119
about 1800 years before copernicus did

1122
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:27,040
so which of course copernicus suffered a

1123
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:29,839
bit at the hands of the of the church

1124
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,400
aristarchus also calculated the sizes of

1125
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:34,160
the sun and the moon as well as their

1126
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:37,680
distances from the earth in earth radii

1127
00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:40,000
aristarchus working drawings are the

1128
00:42:44,309 --> 00:42:41,599
relative sizes of the sun earth and the

1129
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:44,319
moon are illustrated in the this issue

1130
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:46,640
of the skeptic magazine so if we go back

1131
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:48,400
to issue

1132
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:50,720
33 number four

1133
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:52,480
page 31 you can actually see the

1134
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:56,000
illustrations that um he developed

1135
00:43:02,870 --> 00:42:59,440
eratosthenes of siren 276 to 195 or

1136
00:43:05,109 --> 00:43:02,880
perhaps 194 bce mathematician geographer

1137
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:05,119
poet astronomer music theorist and

1138
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:07,280
inventor of the word geography

1139
00:43:10,829 --> 00:43:08,720
calculated the circumference of the

1140
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:10,839
earth by using a measuring system using

1141
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:14,480
studies or the length of stadiums during

1142
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:16,880
that time period depending on which form

1143
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:19,200
of the study he used his calculation was

1144
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:23,280
between 1.6 and 16.4 percent off the

1145
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,720
actual distance

1146
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:27,119
unfortunately aristarchus was unable to

1147
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,520
persuade his contemporary colleagues of

1148
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:31,680
the merits of his theory which was

1149
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,319
largely forgotten until rediscovered by

1150
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,880
copernicus in the 16th century

1151
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,160
ce

1152
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:40,560
so lucius of seleucia

1153
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,200
born about 190 bc was the only greek

1154
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:45,520
babylonian philosopher to support a

1155
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:48,079
heliocentric sun-centered model of

1156
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,520
planetary motion

1157
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,599
he also correctly theorized that tides

1158
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:53,200
were caused by the moon

1159
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:55,680
a theory which was overlooked by galileo

1160
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,680
1700 years later so in other words the

1161
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:59,359
greeks were actually developing a lot of

1162
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:01,280
these theories that we now accept a long

1163
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:04,480
time ago they were dropped and revived

1164
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:05,760
later on

1165
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,960
hipparchus of nicaea 190-120 bce was a

1166
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,480
greek astronomer geographer and

1167
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:12,960
mathematician of the hellenistic period

1168
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:14,640
he is considered the founder of

1169
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:15,920
trigonometry

1170
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:17,839
but is most famous for his incidental

1171
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:21,599
discovery of precession of the equinoxes

1172
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,160
he compiled a star catalogue recording

1173
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,640
the position and brightness of the stars

1174
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:28,400
which was used by astronomers for

1175
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:30,960
centuries afterwards

1176
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:33,200
as a result of the non-acceptance of

1177
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:35,760
aristarchus heliocentric model

1178
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,599
subsequent greek astronomers persisted

1179
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,520
with trying to reconcile the anomalous

1180
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:41,520
movements of the planets with a

1181
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:43,599
geocentric earth centered model of the

1182
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:44,880
cosmos

1183
00:44:47,470 --> 00:44:46,319
apollonius of

1184
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:47,480
perga

1185
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:50,400
262-190 bce introduced two new

1186
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:51,760
mechanisms

1187
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:55,920
the eccentric deferment and the epicycle

1188
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,119
now we get to one of the most important

1189
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,599
names in ancient astronomy uh claudius

1190
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:01,520
ptolemy of alexandria he was a

1191
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:04,240
greco-roman mathematician also known as

1192
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:06,640
an astronomer geographer and astrologer

1193
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,400
ptolemy explained how to predict the

1194
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:10,400
behaviour of the planets by introducing

1195
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:11,920
the equant

1196
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:13,359
the basic elements of ptolemaic

1197
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:15,760
cosmology indicate a planet rotating on

1198
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,400
an epicycle which is itself rotating

1199
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,160
around a deferent

1200
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:22,319
inside a crystalline sphere starts

1201
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:24,000
getting complicated

1202
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:26,400
the earth is slightly off of the center

1203
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:27,760
of this system

1204
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:30,160
opposite the earth is an equine point

1205
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:31,760
which is what the planetary deferent

1206
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:34,400
would actually rotate around

1207
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:35,920
ultimately these attempts at

1208
00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:38,000
retrofitting cosmological theory to

1209
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:40,240
seemingly endless observational

1210
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,760
anomalies just became too much

1211
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,520
dislike of the equinet on top of the

1212
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:47,599
deferent in the epicycle was a major

1213
00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:49,760
motivation for copernicus

1214
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,400
to construct his heliocentric system

1215
00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:54,720
after the scientific renaissance some

1216
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,200
1500 years later

1217
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,760
although astrology was not as popular in

1218
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:01,680
ancient greece as it was in egypt and

1219
00:46:05,109 --> 00:46:03,359
mesopotamia

1220
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:05,119
belief in astrology continued through

1221
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:08,000
the roman period in the middle ages

1222
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:10,079
through most of its history astrology

1223
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:12,560
was considered a scholarly tradition it

1224
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:15,200
was accepted in political and academic

1225
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:17,520
contexts and was connected with other

1226
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:19,839
studies such as astronomy alchemy

1227
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:22,160
meteorology and medicine

1228
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:24,400
at the end of the 17th century new

1229
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:26,160
scientific concepts in astronomy and

1230
00:46:30,790 --> 00:46:28,640
physics such as heliocentrism and

1231
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:30,800
newtonian mechanics

1232
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:33,440
called astrology into question

1233
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,760
astrology thus lost its academic and

1234
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:37,520
theoretical standing

1235
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:39,760
and common belief in astrology has since

1236
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,309
and that's the eye in the sky

1237
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:48,560
from the skeptic magazine

1238
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,800
december 2013 volume 33 number four and

1239
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:54,960
you can read this article in full as

1240
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:57,920
well as the entire issue the magazine

1241
00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:59,839
and most other issues of the skeptic

1242
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:02,160
magazine for free to download from our

1243
00:47:08,350 --> 00:47:05,760
website skeptics.com

1244
00:47:12,790 --> 00:47:08,360
enjoy your reading

1245
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:18,710
[Music]

1246
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:21,510
hi there i'm abhijeet and i host the

1247
00:47:27,030 --> 00:47:25,119
rationable podcast on be rational.com

1248
00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:27,040
every couple of weeks i science the hell

1249
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:29,040
out of alternative medicines health and

1250
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:32,079
nutrition fads social media forwards

1251
00:47:37,829 --> 00:47:35,520
science news and lots more of course you

1252
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:37,839
can find all of my articles podcast

1253
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:40,000
episodes and lots more on

1254
00:47:53,730 --> 00:47:46,150
see you there and until then

1255
00:47:59,380 --> 00:47:56,470
[Music]

1256
00:48:06,309 --> 00:47:59,390
so

1257
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:08,150
now it's time to dive back into the

1258
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:10,480
digital trove the treasure trove of

1259
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:13,599
trove at trove.nla.gov.edu

1260
00:48:16,549 --> 00:48:15,040
of course your online resource from the

1261
00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:16,559
australian government and the national

1262
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:18,559
library of australia digitised

1263
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:21,040
newspapers gazettes periodicals and

1264
00:48:27,610 --> 00:48:22,880
magazines

1265
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:29,109
[Music]

1266
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:31,280
and this week we're going to revisit a

1267
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:35,119
classic of skepticism one of the uh

1268
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,559
one of the big classics one of the

1269
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:38,960
pillars of skit i mean i wonder what you

1270
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:41,119
could list if you were to list

1271
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:43,040
the classical

1272
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:44,960
things that skeptics are skeptical of

1273
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:46,559
astrology would be

1274
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:48,559
in the top five i guess

1275
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:50,000
from a historical point of view

1276
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:51,359
astrology

1277
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:53,280
psychic powers

1278
00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:56,800
alien spaceships visiting earth

1279
00:49:00,250 --> 00:48:58,640
ghosts

1280
00:49:01,910 --> 00:49:00,260
yeah astrology's really up there

1281
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:01,920
[Music]

1282
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:03,920
my way of thinking i don't think you

1283
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:07,359
hear as much about it now as you used to

1284
00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:09,760
hard to say

1285
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,160
but there are certainly many

1286
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,280
many many articles about astrology in

1287
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:17,680
the pages of australian newspapers and

1288
00:49:22,150 --> 00:49:19,839
magazines and so on

1289
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:22,160
now way back in 2020 i did a trove

1290
00:49:25,349 --> 00:49:23,920
segment on astrology

1291
00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:25,359
which looked more or less at the

1292
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:28,000
astrology astrological predictions and

1293
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,559
the second world war

1294
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:32,880
but uh well

1295
00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:35,440
there's a uh an embarrassment of riches

1296
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:37,359
when it comes to picking items about

1297
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:39,359
astrology and we turn

1298
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:42,640
we turn to the south coast times

1299
00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:44,800
and wollongong argus

1300
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,400
dated the 27th of march

1301
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:50,240
1950

1302
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,520
astrology

1303
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:53,440
a fake science

1304
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:55,200
taurus the bull

1305
00:49:59,680 --> 00:49:56,720
is right

1306
00:50:02,309 --> 00:49:59,690
by phil quine

1307
00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:02,319
[Music]

1308
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:04,319
men at some time

1309
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:06,800
masters of their fate the fault dear

1310
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:09,599
brutus is not in the stars

1311
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:12,720
but in ourselves

1312
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:16,400
so spake the shrewd but crafty cassius

1313
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:19,119
and he sure said something there brutus

1314
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:20,400
had just been

1315
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:22,000
ear bashing him

1316
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:25,280
about what a big shot julius caesar was

1317
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:28,480
and what small potatoes he and cassius

1318
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:31,040
were in comparison and it was then that

1319
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,280
the latter tightly reminded him that

1320
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:35,680
they only had themselves to blame

1321
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:38,400
350 years have elapsed since shakespeare

1322
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:40,079
put those immortal words in the mouth of

1323
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:43,280
cassius and in that time not one

1324
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:45,520
recognized scientist anywhere in the

1325
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:47,760
world has expressed the slightest belief

1326
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:50,640
in any connection between the stars and

1327
00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:52,720
man's destiny

1328
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,319
thousands of people are born every year

1329
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:56,480
on the same day hundreds of them at the

1330
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:57,920
same hour

1331
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:00,160
and yet how many of these people have

1332
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:02,720
the identical characters and

1333
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:04,240
personalities

1334
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:05,119
not

1335
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:06,640
one of them

1336
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:07,760
there are

1337
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:09,920
not even any two people in the world

1338
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:11,920
with identical fingerprints

1339
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:14,160
if there were the entire fingerprinting

1340
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:16,720
system would automatically break down

1341
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:19,760
and surely the mind and character of an

1342
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:23,040
individual is more intricate and complex

1343
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:25,119
than the patterns on the tips of his

1344
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,839
fingers how could a planet moving in its

1345
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,280
a custom orb

1346
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:31,599
hundreds of millions of miles away from

1347
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:33,440
earth have any

1348
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:34,640
possible

1349
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:37,119
bearing on the life of say

1350
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:39,599
bill jones of sydney

1351
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:41,680
planets after all are only comprised of

1352
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,319
various gases and metals and if a mass

1353
00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:47,280
of metal or an accumulation of gas can

1354
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:49,599
influence a human being's life

1355
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:52,079
it would be more logical for bill to

1356
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:54,960
consult the sydney harbour bridge or the

1357
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:58,800
gas works before engaging in his daily

1358
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:00,240
affairs

1359
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:02,319
another screwy feature of the

1360
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:04,720
pseudoscience of astrology is that it

1361
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:07,119
places all its emphasis on the moment of

1362
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:10,160
birth bill jones for example is born on

1363
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:12,480
april 22nd under taurus

1364
00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:15,599
the bull surely an apt name for a sign

1365
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:18,319
of the zodiac his cousin tom smith is

1366
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:21,040
born on april 18th four days earlier

1367
00:52:25,829 --> 00:52:23,359
under aries the ram

1368
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:25,839
tom's horoscope and therefore his life

1369
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:28,160
character opportunities etc

1370
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:31,520
will be entirely different to bills yet

1371
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:33,920
the fact remains that both bill and tom

1372
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:35,760
may have been

1373
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:38,720
conceived on the same day

1374
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:41,359
surely even if the stars did influence

1375
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:43,359
our lives it would be more reasonable to

1376
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:45,520
assume that such influence would

1377
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:47,839
commence at the moment of conception

1378
00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:50,319
which is the true moment of birth

1379
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:53,680
rather than at the time of delivery

1380
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:56,240
apparently if a doctor hastens the birth

1381
00:53:03,589 --> 00:52:58,880
by 24 hours to assist the mother

1382
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:03,599
he is there by changing the destiny of

1383
00:53:07,349 --> 00:53:05,040
the world

1384
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,359
another thing that must disconcert

1385
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:09,280
followers of this particular faith is

1386
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:12,079
that even its most prominent messiahs

1387
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:14,800
cannot agree on the correct dates on

1388
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:16,960
which the zodiacal signs commence and

1389
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:19,520
finish as i write i have before me two

1390
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:21,440
astrology columns culled from the

1391
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:23,359
current issues of two popular women's

1392
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:24,960
magazines

1393
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:27,359
one says that ares runs from march 21st

1394
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:30,079
to april 19th and tourists from april

1395
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:33,200
20th to may 20th the other gives aries

1396
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:36,079
is march 21st to april 21st with

1397
00:53:43,390 --> 00:53:40,079
tourists from april 22nd to may 21st

1398
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:43,400
and so it goes with the dates differing

1399
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:46,079
correspondingly in all other signs of

1400
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:48,160
the zodiac a

1401
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:50,319
true believer whose birthday falls on

1402
00:53:56,069 --> 00:53:52,960
one of the borderline dates

1403
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:56,079
may be pardoned a little natural

1404
00:54:02,870 --> 00:53:59,599
confusion especially as in one paper

1405
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:02,880
taurus are going to have a successful

1406
00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:03,760
week

1407
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:05,599
and in the other

1408
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:07,280
they're doomed to meet with

1409
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:08,640
disappointments

1410
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:11,359
and difficulties people who believe in

1411
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:13,920
astrology and i am not speaking of those

1412
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:16,800
who read it lightly for its amusement

1413
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:20,480
value but of the credulous simpletons

1414
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:22,960
who actually guide their lives by the

1415
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:25,920
trash have the mentality of backwards

1416
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:27,119
morons

1417
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:29,920
that's a little bit harsh

1418
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:33,359
it is a moot point whether they should

1419
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:35,200
be protected from themselves by

1420
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:38,000
legislation or whether charlatans should

1421
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:42,160
be allowed to prey on them unhampered

1422
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:44,640
but as one leading journalist said

1423
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:47,599
when he asked if he really believed in

1424
00:54:53,829 --> 00:54:51,119
astrology i'll say i do i get 20 quid a

1425
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:53,839
week for writing the muck

1426
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:56,079
so yes that was written by phil quine

1427
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:58,960
way back in 1950 and

1428
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:01,359
a little bit a little bit uh a little

1429
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:03,040
bit harsh i think

1430
00:55:06,460 --> 00:55:04,640
and now we turn to a newspaper or a

1431
00:55:08,109 --> 00:55:06,470
magazine at the time in

1432
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:08,119
[Music]

1433
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:11,040
1941 the 17th of may

1434
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:12,000
the

1435
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:16,079
journal is called smith's weekly

1436
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:18,720
and apparently this ran from 1919 to

1437
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:21,680
1950 here in sydney

1438
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:23,920
and it seems to take a similar hard line

1439
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:25,200
as the last

1440
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:28,160
item we read astrology is just all

1441
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:29,359
taurus

1442
00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:30,480
it is

1443
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:32,720
a sheer impossibility to read the

1444
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:34,960
australian woman's weekly

1445
00:55:39,349 --> 00:55:37,119
and sydney sunday telegraph both of

1446
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,359
which come from the same office and have

1447
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:41,119
faith if any

1448
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:43,520
in astrology and i don't see a byline so

1449
00:55:47,349 --> 00:55:44,960
this would be a staff writer or the

1450
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:47,359
editor i imagine

1451
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:49,359
both these papers waste valuable

1452
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:51,760
newsprint on phony predictions

1453
00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:54,960
but gentle june marsden

1454
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:57,760
who fakes the future for the women's

1455
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:00,720
weekly and barbara feyer

1456
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:03,520
sunday telegraph seer can't agree on

1457
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:06,000
what the stars foretell

1458
00:56:11,910 --> 00:56:08,640
marsden predicted for sagittarius born

1459
00:56:13,829 --> 00:56:11,920
between november 24th and december 22nd

1460
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:13,839
last week was

1461
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,240
not a spectacularly helpful time things

1462
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:18,240
can prove difficult for a few weeks

1463
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:19,920
barbara feyer

1464
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:23,280
most sagittarians should enjoy a week of

1465
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:26,079
ease this morning is the best time for

1466
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:27,920
starting new ventures

1467
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:30,079
a week of ease is assured only to

1468
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:31,760
barbara feyer

1469
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,559
for being paid for fooling her puerile

1470
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,920
public

1471
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,440
old olive

1472
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:39,359
oil stevens

1473
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:41,200
of woman

1474
00:56:45,510 --> 00:56:43,599
differed altogether with

1475
00:56:46,710 --> 00:56:45,520
this week brings opportunities through

1476
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:46,720
your job

1477
00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:49,359
she means her job which her dupes keep

1478
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:50,559
going

1479
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:53,280
of course most nitwits can only afford

1480
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:56,160
one paper and so are unaware of the

1481
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:58,720
tricks played on them preposterous june

1482
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:01,440
marsden is at present sitting pretty as

1483
00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:03,839
is artful arthur

1484
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:04,480
d

1485
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:09,680
position of quote

1486
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:13,119
biggest nut of them all then quote

1487
00:57:17,109 --> 00:57:15,599
each has a revolving line of

1488
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:17,119
sob stuff

1489
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:20,400
to churn out to catch mugs

1490
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:21,359
and i'll

1491
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:23,040
just stop here

1492
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:24,240
mugs

1493
00:57:32,390 --> 00:57:29,280
is a english australian term

1494
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:32,400
um it means um

1495
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:33,839
a mark

1496
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:37,280
or a dupe or a fool

1497
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:39,359
somebody who can be easily taken

1498
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:41,119
advantage of

1499
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:42,880
we read on

1500
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,599
full of the milk of human kindness they

1501
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:47,680
would have you believe them actually

1502
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:49,760
they are both full of

1503
00:57:52,630 --> 00:57:51,200
taurus

1504
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:52,640
other sunday

1505
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:56,640
during one of her talks over 2gb and 2gb

1506
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:57,520
is

1507
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:59,839
a radio station still

1508
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:01,359
2gb

1509
00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:04,559
sponsored by the woman's weekly june

1510
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:06,319
told listeners that people had written

1511
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:08,559
to her saying that they wept with

1512
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:11,440
emotion at some of her stories

1513
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,520
poor boobs you must not cry counsel dune

1514
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:17,760
people who have passed from this life

1515
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:20,079
are hurt by our tears

1516
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:23,040
but while her victims are here june

1517
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:24,480
cashes in

1518
00:58:28,069 --> 00:58:27,200
she told a tale of her childhood

1519
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:28,079
once

1520
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:30,000
she thought she could fly

1521
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:33,359
a symptom regarded seriously by doctors

1522
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:35,599
jumped from a two-story house

1523
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:38,000
and flattened her nose

1524
00:58:44,230 --> 00:58:41,520
she did not admit to any other injuries

1525
00:58:48,150 --> 00:58:44,240
but in this fall there is probably some

1526
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:48,160
explanation for the bunkum she concocts

1527
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:49,760
june claims to have made an important

1528
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,280
discovery the bright star of the east

1529
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:55,200
which led the shepherds to the infant

1530
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:56,880
jesus was

1531
00:59:01,829 --> 00:58:58,559
in reality

1532
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:01,839
three big stars getting together for an

1533
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:03,520
important event

1534
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:05,040
according to her

1535
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:07,040
inside information

1536
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:09,040
the three stars are going to get

1537
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:10,799
together again soon

1538
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:14,000
although astronomers have their doubts

1539
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:16,640
in melbourne boss cocky astrologer is

1540
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:17,440
jay

1541
00:59:21,430 --> 00:59:19,200
vickers willis

1542
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,440
of middle brighton

1543
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:23,760
he does a lively business in social

1544
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:26,559
circles by shaking a hand at a cocktail

1545
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,200
party he has been able to tell the owner

1546
00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:31,520
of the hand that he would have to watch

1547
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:34,000
out for kidney trouble

1548
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:36,559
a long horoscope concocted by vickers

1549
00:59:42,390 --> 00:59:39,520
willis some time ago for a young man now

1550
00:59:44,390 --> 00:59:42,400
earning distinction with the r double af

1551
00:59:45,670 --> 00:59:44,400
that's the royal australian air force

1552
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:45,680
overseas

1553
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:48,960
has been handed to smith's

1554
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:52,400
seer told him that he would lose rather

1555
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:54,400
than gain if he traveled within two

1556
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:57,359
years after the horoscope was cast and

1557
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:59,599
warned him against having anything to do

1558
01:00:02,069 --> 01:00:00,640
with

1559
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:02,079
the air

1560
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:04,000
a young man borrowed some money and went

1561
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:06,480
overseas immediately he obtained an

1562
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,760
excellent job far better than any he had

1563
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:11,280
had in australia

1564
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:14,480
within a year he had paid off the loan

1565
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:16,079
when war broke out he returned to

1566
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:18,720
australia and was immediately accepted

1567
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:22,480
by the raf he is now overseas and has an

1568
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:25,839
excellent record in the air

1569
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,799
explanation for the failure of vicus

1570
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:29,839
willis

1571
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:32,400
forecasts is surely that the young man

1572
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:34,319
did not supply the

1573
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:37,440
exact hour of his birth

1574
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:40,400
not one scientist of standing has any

1575
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:42,640
kind of word for astrology it is a

1576
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:45,280
wicked ramp designed to fleece the

1577
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:47,839
superstitious and ignorant or both

1578
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:49,599
federal and state governments should

1579
01:00:55,050 --> 01:00:52,799
declare the practice of astrology

1580
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:55,060
criminal

1581
01:01:00,390 --> 01:00:56,400
[Music]

1582
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:01,589
wow

1583
01:01:07,740 --> 01:01:04,720
very strong words from way back in

1584
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:07,750
when was it 1941

1585
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:13,280
[Music]

1586
01:01:17,829 --> 01:01:15,280
we heard about a woman called june

1587
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:17,839
marsden who was an astrologer in the

1588
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:20,000
australian woman's weekly

1589
01:01:25,829 --> 01:01:21,680
and so i did a little research and

1590
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:25,839
here's an excerpt from 1940 the 23rd of

1591
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:29,119
march from the australian woman's weekly

1592
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:30,720
written in the stars

1593
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:33,440
astrology by june marsden president

1594
01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:36,799
australian astrological research society

1595
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:39,920
march 21 is an important date it ushers

1596
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,280
in the astrological year

1597
01:01:47,910 --> 01:01:45,440
well i didn't know that

1598
01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:47,920
aries is the first sign of the zodiac

1599
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:49,920
and people born between march 21 and

1600
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:53,040
april 21 belong to the ranks of a race

1601
01:01:57,109 --> 01:01:54,960
extraordinary

1602
01:02:00,309 --> 01:01:57,119
true to their sign the first in the

1603
01:02:02,390 --> 01:02:00,319
zodiac they are pioneers and like to

1604
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:02,400
lead others and to break into new and

1605
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:04,400
sometimes difficult or dangerous fields

1606
01:02:10,870 --> 01:02:07,520
of endeavor in the preference to leading

1607
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:10,880
a life of even partial monotony

1608
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:13,039
astrology endows this sign with the

1609
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:14,880
symbol of aries the ram

1610
01:02:21,270 --> 01:02:18,000
and this gives the indication of the

1611
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,280
main characteristics of aryans

1612
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:23,440
just as the ram takes pride in his

1613
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:27,039
position as head of the herd and enjoys

1614
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:30,079
bossing things in a lordly manner

1615
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:33,039
so do aryans crave authority and

1616
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:36,559
independence accountable to none and to

1617
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:39,359
secure positions to boss others around

1618
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:43,359
when the mood or occasion demands

1619
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:46,079
so there you go i won't read on it

1620
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:50,160
goes on there you go people who consider

1621
01:02:54,309 --> 01:02:52,319
themselves aries look out

1622
01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:54,319
you i bet you didn't know that or maybe

1623
01:02:57,190 --> 01:02:55,680
you did

1624
01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:57,200
and right at the bottom of the article

1625
01:03:00,950 --> 01:02:58,960
it says the australian woman's weekly

1626
01:03:03,430 --> 01:03:00,960
presents this series of articles on

1627
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:03,440
astrology as a matter of interest

1628
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:05,599
without accepting responsibility for the

1629
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:08,880
statements contained in them

1630
01:03:14,309 --> 01:03:11,680
june marston regrets that she is unable

1631
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:14,319
to answer any letters

1632
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:17,520
editor australian women's weekly

1633
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:19,520
of course there are many hundreds if not

1634
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:21,839
thousands or more items and articles and

1635
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:23,920
bits and pieces concerning astrology

1636
01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:26,000
over the decades but you might have a

1637
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,200
bit of fun

1638
01:03:30,829 --> 01:03:29,280
looking up some of those for yourself if

1639
01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:30,839
you visit trove at

1640
01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:33,839
trove.nla.gov today you

1641
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:34,960
and

1642
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:36,240
you never know

1643
01:03:41,930 --> 01:03:55,910
[Music]

1644
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:57,430
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1645
01:04:01,510 --> 01:03:59,760
zone and as you heard in the skeptic

1646
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:01,520
zone my friend abigail chunder from

1647
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:04,000
india will be presenting at skeptics in

1648
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:05,839
the pub here in sydney this thursday

1649
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:07,520
night australian time

1650
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:09,920
and you can just follow the link follow

1651
01:04:14,829 --> 01:04:12,000
the link in this week's show notes or if

1652
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:14,839
you go to twitch twitch.com

1653
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:17,119
australianskeptics that's the place to

1654
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:19,520
go and you can see uh

1655
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:21,200
abajid give his talk and i will be

1656
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:22,960
hosting that event looking forward to

1657
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:24,960
that a great deal

1658
01:04:29,829 --> 01:04:27,520
and also if you go to skepticzone.tv go

1659
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:29,839
to the top of the page you'll see a

1660
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:32,640
link an icon a link for tic toc because

1661
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:34,880
the skeptic zone is also on tick tock

1662
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:37,119
with a series called mystic minute where

1663
01:04:40,230 --> 01:04:38,079
i look at

1664
01:04:42,789 --> 01:04:40,240
various paranormal and supernatural

1665
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:42,799
claims very briefly just give a very

1666
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:44,240
brief overview

1667
01:04:46,870 --> 01:04:46,000
and for some reason the latest one i put

1668
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:46,880
up there

1669
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:49,119
all about spoon bending

1670
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:51,440
has got more hits than any other

1671
01:04:57,670 --> 01:04:53,520
spoon bending eh if you want to see me

1672
01:05:01,029 --> 01:04:57,680
bend a spoon head to skepticzone.tv

1673
01:05:02,710 --> 01:05:01,039
and click the tick tock link or indeed

1674
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:02,720
if you are on tick tock if you're a tick

1675
01:05:05,190 --> 01:05:03,760
tocker

1676
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:05,200
why not um

1677
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:08,160
why not subscribe to my tik tok channel

1678
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:09,359
but now it's time for me to run

1679
01:05:11,910 --> 01:05:10,799
downstairs and have a large drink of

1680
01:05:14,390 --> 01:05:11,920
water i think i don't know what's

1681
01:05:17,349 --> 01:05:14,400
happening to my voice today oh well but

1682
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:17,359
for this week this is richard saunders

1683
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:26,069
you've been listening to the skeptic

1684
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:27,520
zone podcast

1685
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:28,960
please visit our website at

1686
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:35,190
for show notes contacts and to access

1687
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:37,760
the back catalog of episodes going back

1688
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:40,000
to 2008

1689
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:41,920
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1690
01:05:46,789 --> 01:05:44,640
on twitter at skepticzone

1691
01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:46,799
visit our facebook page or leave a

1692
01:05:51,190 --> 01:05:49,119
review on itunes

1693
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:51,200
you can also support the skeptic zone

1694
01:05:57,750 --> 01:05:54,400
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1695
01:05:59,349 --> 01:05:57,760
podcast is an independent production the

1696
01:06:01,670 --> 01:05:59,359
views and opinions expressed on the

1697
01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:01,680
skeptic zone are not necessarily those